Posted By MJ
Before all the French bashing starts (Fox News never really stopped), I want to get my two cents in. First, for matter of historical accuracy, there probably is no way America would have won independence from Britain during our Revolution without French help. The French navy kept the British tied up and constantly played psychological games with King George; and for that, we merci La France (The French just love it when you try). Now, with that out of the way, it’s time for another history lesson.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke on Tuesday at an elite French political science institute known in France as Sciences Po. This address was part of her tour through Europe as her first official visit as America’s leading diplomat and she wasn’t received all that well. Readers of this site will know that I am not a fan of the current American president. I will argue all day about all the dull decisions made in this war with Iraq. I will also argue the astuteness of having Rice as the country’s head diplomat especially after her intelligence failures with Iraq. But, like Sen. Barak Obama said, she is the president’s choice, and as president he deserves it. I’ll go along with that. But, I won’t go along with the French and their display of anti-Americanism over the last two years.
Oh La France, how soon we forget.
Twice, in less than 30 years, America came to your aid and liberated your soil. Any help during the American Revolution has been greatly repaid with over 100,000 dead American soldiers upon your land. Yes the British were with us, but I would think that would be even more humiliating for you; and besides, the second time around America gave the Brits, the Canadians and the Aussies a ride across the Channel. None of it would have been possible without America.
I understand your embarrassment of losing three straight wars (Five if you count Algeria and Vietnam). Your once and mighty culture used to dominate Europe, and the world, just as your Napoleonic armies were ruthlessly invading and forcing occupation on nearly every country in Europe.
However, following 1945 the U.S. formed NATO, an alliance that prompted America to assume responsibility for the future safety and security of Europe against the Soviet Union. Paris stood no chance against Soviet aggression without the U.S. and for 46 years America stood firm in defending France and the rest of Western Europe from any invasion. Today the French are dismayed to think that the people of Iraq deserve the same treatment from the United States. They have forgotten the efforts at which America has stood by them and instead openly supported an Iraqi dictator by selling him weapons well after the 1991 embargo on Iraq. Chirac is certainly no man of peace. The French have forgotten that the freedom they now enjoy came at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American and British lives.
It was after your defeat to Germany in WWII and then resurrection from America and her Allies that you refused to give up your Southeast Asian colonies, most notably Vietnam. We do thank you France for screwing up Vietnam as well. European colonialism is the result of much turmoil in this world today.
What, you may ask, an American Democrat bashing the French. You bet. I’m a Democrat and proud of it. But I’m not ignorant to the world. I might disagree with Bush and his senseless handling of Iraq, but Bush sure is better than anything they have to offer in Europe.
February 09, 2005
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I have to agree with your post about France. It's the same thing with any country that doesn't accept the 'American' way of life. For example, Bush was mad that the Canadians for not joining in the war, and all of a sudden, poof, softwood lumber ban from Canada. Cause it's 'saving American jobs' by charging more to the US for their lumber, jacking up the cost of housing and putting more people on the streets, huh.
ReplyDeleteThen, oh no Mad Cow. No one has got any Madcow disease from us. We found 2 cows (both related as it's been told) over the past two years.
So, ban the cows.
What's next? Is Bush going to try and boycott the Olympics here in 2010? Good thing he won't be around :)
We're still your #1 trading partner, no matter what the Republicans think and you, ours. Why not make nice with the nations that help? Just because you (not you MJ, the US in general) has such a huge population doesn't mean that you're always right.
Just a thought :)
AssistantK, to begin, mad cow disease is serious! If you have found two cows to have it, it stands to reason that it could be spread, even to the US. Look what happend in the UK.
ReplyDeleteThe truth about Canada is that they want all the benefits of being a world power, but don't want to take any responsiblity to enforce their will. I am glad that we, the US, and Canada can be on great trading terms, but we have a right to protect our interests, reagarding safety and economics.
Remember, for the US to be the power that it has become, it has to have a strong economy with world trading partners. No matter what differences we may have, not just with Canada, but with all nations, we need to have factors of production to fuel our economy.
Can't wait to go back to Canada for another Olympics, the winter Olympics there a few years back was just awesome.
I have to agree with you on this MJ. The French helped us in 1776 but we returned the favor by liberating them from the Nazis and protecting them from the communists, so to the extent their is America-bashing on their part, they are in the wrong.
ReplyDeleteThat said, the disagreements we may have politically are understandable. I am not angry at the French for opposing our invasion of Iraq. They were looking after their own national interest, just as the Russians were looking after theirs in Ukraine and we were looking after our own in Afghanistan and Iraq.
We must obviously look out for ourselves, so I wouldn't question them for doing the same.
That said, given what we have done for the French, it seems a bit unkind for them to demonize us. Disagreements in strategies and different interests need not lead to bashing from anyone.
AssistantK, thanks for your comment.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about accepting the American way of life as a reason for Bush to ban things from Canada or any other country. It's probably more of others just not agreeing with Bush. I mean Canada has accepted the American way of life, there are very few differences between the two countries, Canada just doesn't agree with everything the Bush administration does.
It's the same in America as well. If one doesn't completely agree with Bush about every little thing, they are labeled as anti-American. If one disagrees with how Bush has handled Iraq, then they are un-patriotic anti-Americans. There's no middle ground left.
I agree that our huge population, which grew last census by the entire population of Canada, doesn't always make us right. But not every thing we do is wrong either. Sometimes a stand has to be made. I believe Saddam had to go, I just think Bush has done a lousy job of ensuring everything that he has promised.
I'm going to do a post on Canada soon. Check back.
Thanks again.
Heretic I agree with ya, the French were looking out for their own interests as well. In WWII that's why Vichy France allied with Nazi Germany. In the second war against Iraq it was because the French had been selling weapons to Saddam illegally and were trying to cover their hides. The problem with France and Bush is that they both claim to have superior moral values. They are more alike than we think.
ReplyDeleteThe French are the French are the French. Very little this country does will change their minds. But they would do well to remember their history also.
Thanks Heretic.
This is an interesting website...I like the idea of a think-tank formed from members of opposing political platforms. Living in Germany, you are basically living in what would be called a blue state back home, and the majority of my friends are, no malice intended, socialists. The product of their environment. And we have many interesting and engaging discussions despite my being an evil capitalist.
ReplyDeleteAbout France: I lived there for two years, and kept on trying to like the country, but just couldn't. I love their zest for life, and their expensive tastes: quality over quantity, however, I just found them too elitist. I was shocked at how they regard their Algerian and Morrocan citizens as secondary citizens. The blatant racism and xenophobia are something I have never experienced anywhere else.
They put more importance on academics than manual labor. Scholars think they are so enlightened and look down upon mere plumbers and roofers, even though the taxes earned through the toil of those workers pays for the free university system in France.
Also, Sciences Po Paris is basically the only Sciences Po that matters...anything else is just nothing.
And if you went to the Ecole National d'Administration (yes, France would have to have an official graduate program with the intent of training someone to become an ambassador or other government official etc.) you are God-like in their eyes.
And if anyone thinks that anti-Americanism is just a recent phenomenon in France, I will have to disappoint them. Often I was treated to compliments of being "smart for an American." When I asked them how many Americans they had actually met, they usually had to admit their source was Beverly Hills 90210 or other informative TV programs.
Also, the governmental organization which made decisions on the French language (yes, there actually is a French governmental body which decides what words can now be officially considered usable or not...Germany has such a body too, BTW) decided to ban English words out of the French language. Whereas German is peppered with English words stemming from necessity due to globalization, France continues to fight, demanding that a computer be called an ordinateur, to fax something is to "teletransmettre" it, etc...They are like Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill.
And then Jacques Chirac trying to preach about our Iraqi oil grab? They called him Jacques Iraq in Iraq for a reason.
I could go on for hours about France. I wouldn't want to suggest that France is a terrible country, quite to the contrary, but their moral relativity is mind-boggling.
ValleyGirl:
ReplyDeleteThanks for visiting. I appreciate your input as well. I agree that some form of America bashing has always been present in France. And the same is true for French bashing in America. Just in the last two years it has grown extensively on both sides.
France is a proud country, and also a insecure country- in more ways than one.
I don't mean to sound so anti-French, but I don't think any thing they have proposed is any better than Bush has.
Come back anytime.
Just as a side note, I remembered the French continually harassing Lance Armstrong last years concering doping. Armstrong finally had to say, prove it or I'll sue. Well they never proved it, and nevered sued. Looks like that is the best way to deal with France, just like Bush did. Call their bluff.
ReplyDelete